Talk:Wadi Al-Seer

Circassians was the first to live in Wadi al Seer —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.249.36.223 (talk) 23:04, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

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Spelling

Why are these place names written in Turkish script and grammar? 'Vadi e Seer' is Turko-Persian grammar not Arabic which is Wadi Al Seer or As Seer. Given that the subject of the article is neither in Turkey nor Iran, why should the place name be written in Turkish grammar? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.120.163.70 (talk) 19:08, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

I am not sure which part you are thinking about, perhaps the intro. I have changed now many different spellings to the one used in the title as only one should be used throughout the article. Same with Abdoun, Sweifieh and others. Other spellings can be mentioned in the lead or a section as they are. "Wadi al-Seer" (including without hyphen) is by far the one used though on http://www.ammancity.gov.jo/en/gam/index.asp. --IRISZOOM (talk) 13:51, 16 May 2015 (UTC)

What is the TOPIC of this article?

Totally confused. Is Wadi as-Seer the name for a valley, and/or district (what is a district in Jordan?), and/or municipality (what is a municipality in Jordan?), and/or neighbourhood (what is a neighbourhood in Jordan?) What does Bayāder mean? Please do write for non-locals, too, or the whole effort is useless. Thanks. Arminden (talk) 11:35, 26 December 2015 (UTC)ArmindenArminden (talk) 11:35, 26 December 2015 (UTC)

The district is in the Amman governorate belonging to Greater Amman municipality. District is named after a neighborhood in it called Bayader Wadi Al-Seer and this neighborhood is named after the Al-Seer valley. Valley=Wadi. Makeandtoss (talk) 11:40, 26 December 2015 (UTC)

Sorry, I still can't fully follow you. Let's use ">" as a sign for "larger than", so A>B means B is contained in A.
Is it Greater Amman municipality > Amman governorate > Wadi Al-Seer district > Bayader Wadi Al-Seer neighbourhood? Arminden (talk) 13:01, 26 December 2015 (UTC)ArmindenArminden (talk) 13:01, 26 December 2015 (UTC)

yes but greater amman municipality = amman governorate. And this article is on the district.Makeandtoss (talk) 13:40, 26 December 2015 (UTC)

All clear now? Makeandtoss (talk) 23:32, 26 December 2015 (UTC)

@Makeandtoss: Thanks, after only 9 years (shame on me), but it's clear only in part :))

I have visited Iraq el-Amir after going down Wadi Seer aaall the way from Amman. So to me it's a valley going down to the ghor. Its upper section is in Greater Amman and gives its name to a neighbourhood, I get that. Right? I also knew that it used to be a Caucasian area. But the article should mention the valley/wadi as well, with starting area in the E and mouth in the W (from-to), lest others be confused like me. It's also part of the 1917-18 articles, as a valley (no Greater Amman back then), and in archaeological contexts as well, and the editors there should also be able to wikilink here. Could you please add that information? Thanks! Arminden (talk) 19:37, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

9 years is a very long time. Amman governorate => Wadi Seer liwa. Parallel to the administrative divisions you have the municipal ones: Greater Amman Municipality > Wadi Seer area. Still a mostly Circassian area. As for the actual valley I’m not sure but it could be as you said the way down leading to Iraq al Amir. Makeandtoss (talk) 19:46, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

@Makeandtoss: I didn't mark the page, sorry, and you didn't ping me - and it's been 8¼ years only :)

I found Wadi Sir linked from the Circassians in Jordan page. And also on the 1979 1:250,000 map, where it is marked as a VILLAGE in the wadi, some 6km NE of Iraq el-Amir, so quite far from Amman, c. 12 km as-the-crow-flies west of Downtown Amman. I really don't know if Amman has expanded so much westwards? I'd be surprised. So maybe it's still a separate village/town. That would mean trouble, because the wikilinks only lead to the neighbourhood. I've now added some wikilinks on one of the Sinai and Palestine campaign sub-pages. They mention 'Ein Sir and Wadi Sir (also as Wadi es Sir, Wadi Es Sir) on the way to Amman. Now we absolutely need to make the distinction: valley; 1880 Circassian village east of Amman; modern western neighbourhood of Greater Amman. They haven't got much in common. Cheers, Arminden (talk) 20:22, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

See for instance "...the garrison was ordered to hold the strongly entrenched position of Shunet Nimrin at all costs. Their lines of communication to Amman ran through Es Salt and along the Wady Es Sir via the village of Ain es Sir." So maybe the Brits & Anzacs called the Circassian village Ain es Sir (very probable), or maybe this is another village (unlikely), but the wadi (Wadi as-Sir) sure did play a significant role in that campaign. It shows up on at least 3 pages:

• First Battle of the Jordan
• Second Battle of the Jordan
• Third Transjordan attack.

Arminden (talk) 21:39, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

Is Bayader Wadi Al-Seer = the 1880 Wadi Sir village?

See Circassians in Jordan for the Wadi Sir village est. in 1880.

Brits captured what they called the Ain Sir or Ain es Sir village in 1918, and were attacked there by its Circassian inhabitants.

The already dated King Hussein website (see refs) describes the town of Wadi es-Seer in the Wadi es-Seer valley.

Now there's a section here on a Bayader Wadi Al-Seer neighbourhood, allegedly "10 km" from Iraq el-Amir and full of nice old Ottoman houses. The old Ottoman-period Circassian village used to be maybe 8 km NE of Iraq el-Amir, so either 10 km is just a broad approximation and they're one and the same (Amman has gobbled up the old village), or there is still some distinction there. I guess not.

Anyone who KNOWS? If they're one and the same by now, please add in the "The valley" section:

"The old Circassian village has meanwhile become part of Greater Amman, see Bayader Wadi Al-Seer section."

Thanks, Arminden (talk) 22:59, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

Seems that my hunch was correct. Made the edit.

So much here is unsourced and OR that I feel proud & zero remorse. Yalla habibi! Arminden (talk) 23:54, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

Culture of East/West Amman

This article, as well as the "Culture of Jordan" (which I was just cleaning up) alludes at without directly addressing the segregation and economic disparities between Western and Eastern Amman, and Amman and the Jordanian countryside. Would it make sense to make this a section of the Culture of Jordan article, and then just link to it here? The arguments about Abdoun and Sweifieh vs Wadi Seer (scale of bougieness / westernized-ness) seem a little out of place on this page, but it's true that they're not really addressed elsewhere and are impactful on Ammani/Jordanian culture.

Also, is there a source behind the claim that was here that sweifieh/wadi al-seer has the "highest number of american and western european residents"? A Friday night in Weibdeh would put that claim to test.... Artoenedits (talk) 20:52, 9 December 2017 (UTC)[Userpage:Artoenedits] 20:52 Saturday, December 9, 2017 (UTC)

Where does this bit belong?

It was in the Bayader Wadi Al-Seer section, but it's not using that name, but "Wadi as-Seer city" (still not clear what that term is supposed to mean!), and I'm not sure that Bayader is meant here.

It's part of the overall confusion plaguing this article from the onset (see topics above).

Here it is:

"Wadi as-Seer city contains a well known historical courthouse, an old fort, an entire Ottoman-style neighbourhood standing on extremely steep hills that are enveloped by European narrow streets."

Arminden (talk) 10:47, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

References